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Post by soniktruth on Jun 27, 2002 14:26:16 GMT -5
no it isn't unconstitutional!!
this is bulls.h.i.t.. this phucker is using the constitution as a loophole to support his own beliefs, by s.h.i.t.ting on ours,(or most of us). WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?
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Post by MercurySolo on Jun 27, 2002 15:30:03 GMT -5
The debated point is that the "Under God" phrase is unconstitutional, they say that it's too christian-centric. It doesn't really say "under Jehovah", "under Yahweh" or "Under Allah", though, so it's only monotheist-centric, I guess. The phrase "Under God" wasn't added to the Pledge of Allegiance until the late 40's - mid 50's, though. It seems to me that if they're bothered by it, they could just take the two words out, instead of making the whole thing null and void. Sounds like a job for the ACLU
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Post by headINcortex on Jun 27, 2002 17:38:27 GMT -5
man, there are so many points to be made and so many things one can say about this subject. perconally, i think that a new law should be made in the schools so that a kid, if a parent/guardian notify the school, shouldn't have to say it with the rest of the class. i think that making it a huge national issue out of the whole pledge is going a bit too far. just keep it in the schools, cause thats really where it matters. an adult can just choose not to say it in public, but its harder for a kid, what with the teacher and all the rest of the kids saying it around you. there was a great debate on pollitically incorrect last night on this.
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Post by dyslexiccray0n on Jun 28, 2002 0:14:27 GMT -5
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."
that is the original pledge written by Francis Bellamy...
In 1923, at the first National Flag Conference, the words "the Flag of the United States" were inserted. Congress did not officially recognize any version of the Pledge until 1942, and the following year, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that youngsters could not be compelled to recite it. That decision in WEST VIRGINIA BOARD OF EDUCATION v. BARNETTE, 319 U.S. 624 (1943), was heard on behalf of parents and students belonging to the Jehovah's Witnesses sect, who argued that their religious faith prohibited them from saluting the symbols of a worldly government.
During the decade of the 1950s, the nation was caught up in the "Red Scare" and the hunt for traitors and Soviet Spies. Congressional committees, state legislative panels and other bodies grilled citizens about their political and religious beliefs.
Public profession of religious faith soon became a litmus test for patriotism. On August 21, 1952, the Supreme Council of the (Roman Catholic) Knights of Columbus adopted a resolution at its annual convention urging the inclusion of a "God" acknowledgment in the Pledge. Several other organizations urged similar action, and in Congress, Rep. Louis C. Rabaut of Michigan presented changes in a proposed Public Law to mandate the "under God" phraseology. President Eisenhower signed the measure on Flag Day, June 14, 1954
during that time many other changes were taking place on the political landscape, such as replacing the nations motto 'E Pluribus Unum,' or 'Out of Many, One,' with 'In God We Trust.' President Eisenhower instituted the practice of holding an annual "National Prayer Breakfast" in the White House. And the religious "So help me God" slogan was added to the oath taken by Federal judges and other officials.
now we've come to : is it constitutional?
many people seem to think that the pledge is our heritage, and so forth, but if you want go down that road, then why dont we use the original pledge rather than the edited and practically rewritten one? and if we take 'under god' out of the pledge, christians will still be angry with the system, so there really isn't any right way to do it. should they take it out of the schools? i believe they should because of the seperation of church and state, which it clearly violates. sure, we may have been use to standing up and reciting the pledge when we were in 5th grade, fine and dandy because even then we didnt really care cuz we didnt really want to do it in the first place. now that we've grown up, we've gathered our own beliefs and stand up for them. a religious belief is a gigantic opinion, because no one's right, no one's wrong...but we're always right to ourselves. you cannot go by the majority on any issue, because if you did a lot would be different. if we went by the majority on this subject, yes, there would be a pledge in school, but also, if we went by a majority on should there be welfare, well then, there would be millions of people starving.
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Post by soniktruth on Jun 28, 2002 12:41:28 GMT -5
now crayon boy has done his homework!!!! very impressed man. thanx for the tip guys about the modified pledge of allegiance. i was not aware of this. all those years thinking it was the o.g.
don't get me wrong, i am sensitive to both sides of the issue. let's just take it out of schools for the fact that the author was probably "christian" and he wrote it with "christian" intentions. WAIT LET'S JUST KEEP IT BLANK AND HAVE THE AMERICAN FILL IT OUT
I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG, OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION, UNDER_______(please fill in deity of choice), WITH LIBERTY......AND JUSTICE FOR ALL
THATS IT ALL SETTLED
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Post by headINcortex on Jun 29, 2002 0:00:01 GMT -5
thank you, mr. android. your country is proud. at least part of it is, since the bumbling, confused population (which includes me) could agree on one petty little issue. no offense uncle sam, its a great country.
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Post by headINcortex on Jun 29, 2002 2:55:03 GMT -5
ok, i f*cked up, nevermind. do you get the basic idea? and where is fermented lately? you think he'd have something to say about this.
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Post by soniktruth on Jun 29, 2002 4:31:27 GMT -5
ferm dog has some fans.
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Post by Fermented_Milk on Jun 30, 2002 22:08:27 GMT -5
hello. ok, either crayon man is a laywer, or he's read his history book! damm, thats a lot of shiit!
so heres what i think. i think the statements, in god we trust, and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god, are bullshiit. but that is just to me and evolves strictly from my own present beliefs. printing an oath like that on our nations currency and having our kids stand up in our learning insitutions reciting the opinon that our nation is protected by a god is not in my favor. not everyone in the country puts their trust in god, or jesus, or allah, or buddah, or any religion . and not everone in our classrooms feels our government is carried on the shoulders of any god or religious icon. not everyone is religious. but on the flip side, our country relys on the ruling of the majoraty. so in that case, according to the government, i guess, that is the justification of this debate. christianity is the ruling religion in our country. but not in my eyes. i think there should be a separation between church and state. there obviously isn't right now, but there should be. i dont think jesus is by any means going to help me learn what 3 x 3 is. and i like the idea of straight up learning. not learning the bible. go to church for that. its free.
they could use the old version. that i like. but ever since i got past brainlessly repeating a few phrases i thought were cool because i was young an impressionalble and starting thinking and deciding for my self, the pledge of alligance started to seem a little obsurd. or a little forced. or something like that. i just didn't like the idea of reciting something in a congregation just because that is the opinion of the majoraty. or thats what you "should" do. or somthing like that. i just disagree. thats all.
and thats by no means saying im gonna dislike someone because the are religous. i don't give a fuuck if you consider timothy leary your icon of choice. as long as you are cool to me and don't try to recruit me to you temple, im fine.
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Post by dyslexiccray0n on Jul 2, 2002 11:10:05 GMT -5
hmmm...yes, yes...no, im no lawyer, im not even out of highschool yet, but i have read my history books. i live in the bible belt (oklahoma) and i guess im what's considered a 'notorious atheist' over here. i dont make a big deal about things, i dont cry everytime someone says god bless you, yada yada...it's like crying over spilt milk...but whenever people get worked up about certain things that they really have no idea what the history of it is, such as this, i get a little frustrated with them...so i just gotta let them know whats up...i dont do it to be rude or anything, at least i try not to...
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Post by Fermented_Milk on Jul 2, 2002 16:50:59 GMT -5
yeahhh, sure. you just copied outa you history book! j/k
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Post by soniktruth on Jul 2, 2002 20:04:42 GMT -5
ferm dog
cut and paste brother
.....cut and paste......are you sitting down!!!!(napoleon solo)
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Post by Fermented_Milk on Jul 4, 2002 15:03:00 GMT -5
lol!
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Post by headINcortex on Jul 4, 2002 18:21:26 GMT -5
that's the same backwards...happy 4th, mutha f*ckas. gonna go shoot me some fireworks out in the sticks.
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Post by soniktruth on Jul 5, 2002 22:43:18 GMT -5
any illegal ones?...
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Post by headINcortex on Jul 7, 2002 0:59:08 GMT -5
ohhhh yeah...got like a one-foot long and like a 5'inch wide bottle rocket pack for like 9 bucks. things shoot like 100 feet or some sh*t. also, i have a few large exploder things that can burn and blow up in water. ever had a roman candle war? fun, fun. man, i got stories...
never throw all your left over fire-works in a huge flaming bonfire. see, the direction of the flying, burning rockets is kind of hard to judge when you do that.
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Post by headINcortex on Jul 7, 2002 1:00:48 GMT -5
by the way...i'll be gone for a few days unless i find a p.c. at band camp...don't laugh. going for 6 days, leaving the 6th. just wanna make sure ya'll know i'm still living.
one time, at band camp...
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Post by soniktruth on Jul 7, 2002 3:13:11 GMT -5
hahahha, i was just gonna say that...one time at band camp.....bring back some stories man. get laid or something..have fun
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Post by RagePatriot on Jul 9, 2002 17:17:09 GMT -5
hi every1, this is my frist post here....but anyway. I don't know how many, if any of you are aware that the reason "under god" was instated into the pledge of allegiance was not because of the countries sense of religious upheaval. It was because we wanted to associate our country with a "God" to show we were not communists. As we all know communist countries are athiest, believing more or less that the goverment is "god." Personally i think the ruling is b.s. Nobody is forced to say the words "under god." If you feel so uncomfterable saying it, then dont. Not like many people in the class room even say ONE word of the pledge. Look around the next time its being said in homeroom, youll find yourself to be one of mabey 5 or 6 saying it.
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Post by soniktruth on Jul 10, 2002 0:10:47 GMT -5
check this out ragemeister.....i'm not that religious, but i do think a nation that was founded under christianity, should not lose its original identity. this nation was founded by christians, but like all christians, we accept everyone. ......to not mention god is an extreme loss of god within society today. we should not be ashamed or be afraid to mention our god. ..or im sorry...my "god". ...it all boils down to this, if it aint broke don;t fix it......do not repeat the word "UNDER GOD" if your beliefs do not support it. but do not make me ashamed of my own beliefs for saying it.
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Post by headINcortex on Jul 13, 2002 20:01:06 GMT -5
i'm back and i'm f*cking exhausted...be back later with details on The Camp of Band.
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Post by soniktruth on Jul 15, 2002 1:56:03 GMT -5
spill your guts brother man, spill your guts
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Post by SmarterThanYou on Jul 17, 2002 19:46:48 GMT -5
Fermented Milk, you are completely wrong on the subject. First of all, the reciting of the pledge in school is not unconstitutional because the kids were not forced to say it. They were simply lead by the teacher and were not forced by them. Also, the constitution says that church and state must be separated, the acknowledgement of a God has nothing to do with church. I do not belong to a church, nor do I practice a religion, but I acknowledge the fact of a God, because there is one. Second of all, the ruling by the 9th circuit court is actually unconsitutional. It violates the first amendment. In public schools, teachers are not allowed to lead their children in the pledge of allegiance, which violates their freedom of speech.
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Post by headINcortex on Jul 18, 2002 0:26:45 GMT -5
uh-oh.... well don't totally bash his beliefs, man...you gotta see at least one good point in what he said.
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Post by soniktruth on Jul 18, 2002 12:07:28 GMT -5
whatever happened to fermster? that fool was posting all the time, starting s.h.i.t. with people. he even started s.h.i.t. with me in the 300mhz thread. that crazy c.o.c.k.smoker...now people starting s.h.i.t. with him...what a crazy world.
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Post by headINcortex on Jul 21, 2002 0:09:26 GMT -5
maybe he's just busy starting shit elsewhere. i wish he'd come back though, man. we need more loyal members. we have like 4 or 5. not counting joe.
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Post by soniktruth on Jul 22, 2002 13:51:59 GMT -5
CORTEX BOY AT 97......AND COUNTING
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Post by soniktruth on Jul 22, 2002 16:05:43 GMT -5
i must be bored...i'm counting your posts
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Post by soniktruth on Jul 22, 2002 16:06:08 GMT -5
??
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Post by headINcortex on Jul 23, 2002 2:58:47 GMT -5
i broke one hundred in the 'new guy' thread.
couting my posts, huh....mind if i count your posts sometime? maybe we can have a couting posts party. we can listen to the counting crows.
this is getting weird...i'm going now.
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